www.audioatrium.com Index du Forum
Connexion S'enregistrer FAQ Liste des Membres Rechercher

Getting the Notes Right (Midrange Madness)

 
Poster un nouveau sujet   Répondre au sujet    www.audioatrium.com Index du Forum » Haute-fidelité
Voir le sujet précédent :: Voir le sujet suivant  
Auteur Message
SylvainP



Inscrit le: 25 Mai 2005
Messages: 11767

MessagePosté le: Ven Fév 23, 2007 2:29 pm    Sujet du message: Getting the Notes Right (Midrange Madness) Répondre en citant

Je pense que cela vaut la peine de faire l'effort de lecture de ceci, si vous ne l'avez jamais lu.

Citation:
J. Gordon Holt, November, 1985

Almost 30 years ago, Columbia records issued a unique disc called The Art of Jonathan and Darlene Edwards. Darlene sang and Jonathan played piano, and the jacket notes rhapsodized about the depth of feeling they brought to their duos, despite some imperfections of technique.

Those imperfections, it turned out, amounted to spectacular technical incompetence. Darlene's voice swooped, broke, went falsetto during high passages, and was painfully off-pitch about 60% of the time. Jonathan, who had an impeccable sense of timing and phrasing, on occasion staying precisely in step with Darlene, was the original Mr. Stumblefingers at the keyboard. He played runs with hesitancy and disordered abandon, his chords presaged the coming of aleatoric music, and his arpeggios sounded like pebbles thrown at a set of concert chimes. Their performances may have run as deep with emotion as a Dostoyevsky novel, but no one who heard the record ever noticed anything but that Jonathan and Darlene couldn't get the bloody notes right.

That record did not become an indelible blot on Columbia's recording escutcheon. It was, rather, a historical document of sorts, a roundabout way for two very fine musicians—Paul Weston and Mary Ford (also known as Mr. & Mrs. Weston)—to thumb their noses at what they saw as a distressing trend in pop music: the growing popular appeal of musicians who could emote like crazy but couldn't play music worth a tinker's darn. Of course, the record sank like a lead feather in the marketplace, leaving nary a bubble to mark its watery grave; no one had ever heard of the Edwardses, and American record buyers never have understood anything about good or had performances. (Sure, I can play the piano. How well? Whaddya mean, how well? What's that got to do with anything?)

But The Art of Jonathan and Darlene Edwards became an immediate and lasting hit with cynics, who delighted in burying it amidst a pile of trendy ephemera on the record changer at a party, and waiting to see how long it took their guests to notice that something, anything, was wrong. (The fact that most guests never noticed at all only further fueled the fires of their cynicism.)

Now that some pop instrumentalists have learned to play their instruments pretty well, we can sneer at those early-illiterate rock groups while enjoying today's sophisticated performers through our $10,000 audio systems that reproduce the stage dimensions to within a fraction of an inch, the rumble of the subway three blocks away, and the distress calls of local bats which can recognize aural trauma before people can. But can that super system reproduce music properly? Can it make a clarinet sound like a clarinet, a trumpet like a trumpet, an Amanda McBroom like Amanda McBroom? Can it get the notes right? Chances are, it can't.

It seems, these days, that many of us audiophiles have become so preoccupied with the minutiae of sound reproduction that we haven't even noticed that it doesn't sound like music any more. We marvel at the soundstage presentation, lose our continence over the detail, and climax over our system's ability to rattle the lighting fixtures and scramble our otoliths (footnote 1). But ask your average audiophile if his super system reproduces instrumental sounds realistically and he'll give you a blank stare or, worse, tell you that it must because it's so accurate.

What makes it accurate? Well, listen to that spaciousness, that detail, that seismic bass! How can you doubt?! (How realistic is it? Whaddya mean how realistic? What's that got to do with anything?)

Somewhere along the line we lost track of what audio is all about: the reproduction of music.

That this comes as a surprise to many audiophiles is suggested by the reactions of those with whom I have actually discussed this subject. I have played on this old saw in these pages for so many years that it has turned into a dead saw horse, but somehow the message never seems to get through. There should be no harm done by beating it into the ground a little farther.

Some years ago, Hi-Fi News & Record Review, England's premier audio magazine, published a number of real-time spectrum analyzer curves showing the distribution of energy through the audio range during brief passages of actual recorded music. The thing that was so shocking about those curves was that they revealed, for all to see, that music was comprised mainly of midrange energy! Everything else took a back seat. That in itself should tell you something, but in case it doesn't, I shall spell it out. Since there is more middle range in live music than anything else, it would seem logical to assume that the accuracy of middlerange reproduction is the most important part of music reproduction.

Now I am aware that logic is anathema to the manic perfectionist who treats the more abstruse aspects of his "hobby" as revealed religious truth; this treatise is not addressed to him. I speak instead to the person who still approaches audio as a means for the realistic reproduction of music the person who still has at least one and a half feet placed firmly on the ground.

The middle range is the home of perhaps 85% of the music we listen to. The bass in a musical composition is usually nothing more than a rhythmic or harmonic underpinning to the "melody," which is traditionally scored for a piano's right-hand, or treble clef lies in the range between A below middle C (220Hz) and C4 (4186Hz). Often, of course, the right hand plays bass and the left treble, but the major thematic material of most compositions stays between 220 and about 1500Hz. (Few works call for more than an occasional excursion into the range above 1500Hz).

It is this 220-1500Hz part of the audio range wherein lie the most important notes in music. If a system can't reproduce this range properly—if it can't even get the notes right—then any other positive attributes that system may have are irrelevant. If it can't make the instruments that play in this range sound the way they're supposed to sound, then the fact that it has a beautiful soundstage, and a silky, airy high end, and deep, solid bass is mere embellishment of dross, like gold plating on a cigar butt. Sure, the system may "sound good," but so did the boomy, "mellow" old Magnavox consoles that were the last word in home music systems during the mid-'40s.

If we take seriously our commitment to accuracy in music reproduction, we should not take seriously the scads of high-priced loudspeakers out there in audioland which treat the essential midrange frequencies as obscenities, to be modestly hidden from innocent ears.

I am appalled at how often I hear cheap and unassuming systems—automobile radios and K-Mart Special (30% off!) table radios—produce the kind of startling, in-the-room realism from voice and small-ensemble music that hasn't been heard from "perfectionist" loudspeakers since Acoustic Research invented "Boston bland." Many people have told me, often with some embarrassment, that they get more sheer emotional excitement from their cheap car radio than they do from their kilobuck supersystem at home. What's the appeal of these cheap-crap audio "systems?" Because, while they may not do anything else well, they often do middles very well.

That so-called laid-back middle range (now known as the "BBC dip," after their design of the LS3/5A) has become an epidemic among high-end loudspeakers. Richness and unctiousness are In, realism is absolutely Out. Even JBL, long noted for the startling realism of their midrange reproduction (and for the awfulness of their high and low ends), has joined the bandwagon with a new line of audiophile speakers featuring—guess what?—superb highs, respectable bass, and a new, sucked-out, laidback middle range.

Midrange accuracy should be the starting point of loudspeaker design, onto which our other prized audiophile attributes should then be appended in order to convert that musical midrange into a semblance of literal accuracy. Today it seems that, among the loudspeaker designers who lay claim to accuracy, the musical midrange gets tacked on as an afterthought, to fill the void between all those lovely things the system does at the low end and high end.

Just a few years ago, audiophiles used to ask each other "Sure, it's accurate, but does it sound good?" Today, we might well be saying "Sure, it sounds good, but is it accurate?" It often isn't.


Citation:
Footnote 1: Otoliths are little bits of sand that float around in our inner ear, and sink to the bottom when gravity tells them we are standing on our feet rather than otherwise. Enough 20Hz sound pressure can agitate them so that, like many other audiophiles, we find it hard to tell which side is up. It's a real turn-on.



http://www.stereophile.com//asweseeit/144/index.html



_________________
Check the covers for spiders,
Before you go crawling in bed

Blogue de Sylvain Paquette's Blog : www.sylvainpaquette.com
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé Visiter le site web de l'utilisateur
JeanR



Inscrit le: 06 Jan 2006
Messages: 1533

MessagePosté le: Ven Fév 23, 2007 5:14 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Je pense que ça explique bien pourquoi bien des gens ont redécouvert les large bandes.

Le mid!

(Altecvot, je pense encore aux Supravox, faudrais que je trouve le temps de passer!)


Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé Visiter le site web de l'utilisateur
SylvainP



Inscrit le: 25 Mai 2005
Messages: 11767

MessagePosté le: Ven Fév 23, 2007 6:30 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Bravo Jean pour avoir pris la peine de lire le tout ! Smile



_________________
Check the covers for spiders,
Before you go crawling in bed

Blogue de Sylvain Paquette's Blog : www.sylvainpaquette.com
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé Visiter le site web de l'utilisateur
cmdebien



Inscrit le: 05 Déc 2005
Messages: 2126

MessagePosté le: Sam Fév 24, 2007 1:05 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

J'irais même plus loin en y intégrant les "affirmations de M. Manger.

A+

AltecVot



_________________
Ce qui se fait de grand se fait dans le silence. [Erik Gustaf Geijer]
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
SylvainP



Inscrit le: 25 Mai 2005
Messages: 11767

MessagePosté le: Sam Fév 24, 2007 6:47 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Je t'invite a les ajouter.



_________________
Check the covers for spiders,
Before you go crawling in bed

Blogue de Sylvain Paquette's Blog : www.sylvainpaquette.com
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé Visiter le site web de l'utilisateur
Rejean



Inscrit le: 03 Oct 2005
Messages: 710
Localisation: Levis

MessagePosté le: Sam Fév 24, 2007 10:59 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Vous allez dire "Réjean n'est pas d'accord encore une fois". Ces derniers jours j'ai beaucoup écouté en visionnant l'analyse spectrale. Histoire de bien ajuster les volumes sonores relatifs de mes bi-amp. Et j'ai remarqué que les disques pauvres en basses et aigus sonnaient beaucoup moins bien, avec moins de présence et de réalisme que ceux qui soulèvent toute la bande de fréquences. Ce qui va diamétralement à l'encontre du texte cité plus haut.
J'ai aussi constaté que depuis toujours ma conjointe écoute sa radio de table avec HP de 2 po, plutôt que les magnepan qui sont à deux pas.Et elle chante plus facilement avec sa radio qu'avec mes panneaux...

L'auteur confine son analyse au son. Et l'humain n'écoute pas qu'avec ses oreilles.Tout chez nous est complexe. Je dirais que le hp de deux po laisse toute la place a un message plus simple,, alors que le magnepan livre contenu plus substantiel et contenant avec. Ce n'est pas du tout pareil. Un peu comme les tambours qui servaient de télégraphes entre les villages de la brousse. Bien différents de près et de loin, mais porteurs de la même mauvaise nouvelle. A la limite, quelqu'un qui fredonne a un mid ltrès entrainant. Mon opinion. Tu n'es pas obligé de la partager... Smile



_________________
Rejean
On est fidèle à une sonorité
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
cmdebien



Inscrit le: 05 Déc 2005
Messages: 2126

MessagePosté le: Dim Fév 25, 2007 12:09 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Human hearing evolved initially as a survival mechanism to locate a potential threat. Today our hearing still works by analysing the first transient pressure change from a sound source.

AT LAST: A LOUDSPEAKER BASED ON HUMAN PERCEPTION

I am often asked why I am in the business of sound reproduction. Stated simply, it is due to dissatisfaction with the performance of conventional loudspeakers which to me sound quite unlike the original. To my ears and those of others, the conventional loudspeaker does not convincingly reproduce the timbre of percussive instruments. The spatial information in stereo signals is not properly revealed, and the loudspeaker itself gives a permanent reminder of its presence due to a tonal and spatial footprint which crushes the subtleties in the sound to be reproduced.

My goal has always been to overcome these problems to achieve a quality of reproduction approaching the original experience both tonally and spatially. This has required extensive research into both human hearing and transducer design and has led to the world´s first travelling wave transducer design.

In my case swimming against the stream led away from tradition and into fundamental research into just how much the human listener could perceive and into the hearing mechanisms involved. Particular emphasis was given to a study of the human direction sensing mechanism. This showed that in addition to the well established system of pitch recognition on sustained notes, the ear has an evolutionarily older mechanism by which it locates a sound source through transients.

This mechanism is very powerful because it is the descendant of a highly evolved survival technique from the dawn of mankind, where the slightest noise, such as the snapping of a twig, would represent a threat to survival. Noises of this kind were useful information for all species throughout the world. Speech and music specific to the locality came much later, the noise of machinery
later still.

Transient noises produce a one-off pressure step whose source is accurately and instinctively located. If these transients are not accurately reproduced, the subconscious direction finding mechanism is defeated. The sound becomes unrealistic, the stereophonic image is impaired and the result is listening fatigue.



_________________
Ce qui se fait de grand se fait dans le silence. [Erik Gustaf Geijer]
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Rejean



Inscrit le: 03 Oct 2005
Messages: 710
Localisation: Levis

MessagePosté le: Lun Fév 26, 2007 8:30 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

[quote="altecvot"]

I am often asked why I am in the business of sound reproduction.





Usually, business is business, or you die. Smile



_________________
Rejean
On est fidèle à une sonorité
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
newfinish



Inscrit le: 20 Oct 2006
Messages: 320

MessagePosté le: Ven Juil 27, 2007 9:27 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Rejean a écrit:
Vous allez dire "Réjean n'est pas d'accord encore une fois". Ces derniers jours j'ai beaucoup écouté en visionnant l'analyse spectrale. Histoire de bien ajuster les volumes sonores relatifs de mes bi-amp. Et j'ai remarqué que les disques pauvres en basses et aigus sonnaient beaucoup moins bien, avec moins de présence et de réalisme que ceux qui soulèvent toute la bande de fréquences. Ce qui va diamétralement à l'encontre du texte cité plus haut.
J'ai aussi constaté que depuis toujours ma conjointe écoute sa radio de table avec HP de 2 po, plutôt que les magnepan qui sont à deux pas.Et elle chante plus facilement avec sa radio qu'avec mes panneaux...

L'auteur confine son analyse au son. Et l'humain n'écoute pas qu'avec ses oreilles.Tout chez nous est complexe. Je dirais que le hp de deux po laisse toute la place a un message plus simple,, alors que le magnepan livre contenu plus substantiel et contenant avec. Ce n'est pas du tout pareil. Un peu comme les tambours qui servaient de télégraphes entre les villages de la brousse. Bien différents de près et de loin, mais porteurs de la même mauvaise nouvelle. A la limite, quelqu'un qui fredonne a un mid ltrès entrainant. Mon opinion. Tu n'es pas obligé de la partager... Smile


oui les basses font voyager le reste des frequences plus facilement dans une piece.pas de basses le mid peut paraitre denuder



_________________
L'amertume d'un produit de mauvaise qualité dure longtemps après que la douceur d"un bas prix ait été oubliée...
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
fredhammersmith



Inscrit le: 20 Fév 2007
Messages: 2414

MessagePosté le: Lun Fév 11, 2008 9:13 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Évidemment, je vais défendre les LS 3/5a.
Ils ont au contraire de ce qu'écrit l'auteur un petit boom dans la région 1000-1250 Hz. Ainsi que dans les mid-bass.

Très intéressant, sinon.


Réponse fréquence.jpg (23.08 Ko, Vu 13706 fois)

Réponse fréquence.jpg




_________________
SYSTEME:
Digital: Ordi ASUS / JRIVER Media Center / SPDif Out / Metric Halo ULN-2 // Analogue: Rega Planar 3 / Cart Grace RS-8C / Cambridge 640P // Enceintes actives: Neumann KH 120
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé Visiter le site web de l'utilisateur
Anglofun



Inscrit le: 20 Oct 2005
Messages: 1800

MessagePosté le: Mer Fév 20, 2008 3:47 pm    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

...avec les recents threads sur ce forum, je dois dire que ceci est ùn" breath of fresh air"

what ya think?


Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
zwipzwip



Inscrit le: 21 Nov 2018
Messages: 24

MessagePosté le: Jeu Nov 22, 2018 6:38 am    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Pour moi, les bonnes chansons sont bonnes partout, et les "bons" systèmes rendent les mauvaises chansons acceptables : ils permettent qu'on s'intéresse intellectuellement aux sons, au rendu, plus qu'au contenu mélodique ou émotionnel, que même un radioréveil peut véhiculer.

Pas sûr donc, qu'on prenne plus de plaisir (hormis d'orgueil) avec un système haut de gamme qu'avec un radioréveil.


Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Montrer les messages depuis:   
Poster un nouveau sujet   Répondre au sujet    www.audioatrium.com Index du Forum » Haute-fidelité Toutes les heures sont au format GMT - 5 Heures
Page 1 sur 1
Sauter vers:  
Vous ne pouvez pas poster de nouveaux sujets dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas répondre aux sujets dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas éditer vos messages dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas supprimer vos messages dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas voter dans les sondages de ce forum
Vous pouvez joindre des fichiers dans ce forum
Vous pouvez télécharger des fichiers dans ce forum
www.audioatrium.com topic RSS feed 


Powered by phpBB © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
Designed for Trushkin.net | Styles Database
Traduction par : phpBB-fr.com
[ Time: 0.0965s ][ Queries: 18 (0.0118s) ]